Your Investment Property forum is the place for positive industry interaction and welcomes your professional and informed opinion.

The dark side of property investing

Notify me of new replies via email
Your Investment Property | 12 Jul 2012, 12:00 AM Agree 0
It is wise to remind yourself that if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is
  • homeowner | 12 Jul 2012, 01:05 PM Agree 0
    many of these investment clubs appear during the boom time, and many people sign up with member fees over thousand dollars, when they realise is a scam and wants their money back, the company said it is a member fees and not return any cent, only a few knowhow people successfully get the money back.
    • First-Time Investor | 21 Sep 2014, 11:51 PM Agree 0
      Thanks Homeowner.
      Can you explain the way how people get back their money?
  • Cautious Investor | 12 Jul 2012, 03:27 PM Agree 0
    RE 1. Seminars and 'clubs':
    Anyone had any experiences with Custodian Wealth Builders or Infinite Wealth?
    They definitely operate under the selling developer's product for "hugely discounted prices" category, and have the full 'education'/club veil to make you feel they are on your side, but I'm interested to know whether people who have used them have actually been stung or are happy with their purchase?
    • jack | 06 May 2015, 04:52 PM Agree 0
      i know about custodian. they "sell" rubbish advice for a huge fee. typical scam company who have great speakers but dont help their clients. They also have absolutely horrible properties which they are paid higher commisions to sell to their clients. Some of theese companies do help and do proper research. custodian are horrible
    • TXI | 02 Oct 2015, 02:09 PM Agree 0
      I agree with Jack - having bought two properties from them I walk away with huge losses from two very substandard and hard to sell properties - run a mile!!!
    • | 26 Jul 2016, 12:15 AM Agree 0
      I have used custodian and everything the claimed to do was done
  • Another investor | 12 Jul 2012, 04:51 PM Agree 0
    Any one heard of Boston One. They based in Gold Coast. They conduct seminars all over Australia and rush people to buy their property similar to scam no 1. Any one have any bad experience with them?
    • jason gill | 20 Jul 2015, 01:35 PM Agree 0
      did you go with Boston One in the end, any more problems
  • Pascoe | 12 Jul 2012, 06:10 PM Agree 0
    Sounds like Metropoles "develop property with me" warcry. They get you to supply the funds and hold all the risk whilst they skim ALL the profits with NO risk.
  • Christopher | 12 Jul 2012, 08:05 PM Agree 0
    I went to a Custodian Wealth Builder's seminar many many years ago, and at the time they were pushing their properties in Aspley, Qld. I agreed with them to it being an ideal location, and bought my own property in Aspley saving myself thousands rather than buying one of their inflated properties.

    Before buying, compare to other stock on the market to be sure you aren't being overpriced.
  • Recently contacted! | 12 Jul 2012, 09:59 PM Agree 0
    Anyone had any dealings with Life Capital Group? have recently been contacted by phone, to which an appointment was made with a travelling consultant. We had the consultant come round and after a discussion on purchasing property he offered us a meeting with the head office in Melbourne (we are based in Nth Qld). This is a package that includes flights and accomodation. We have been asked to provide two years of financial documents at the meeting and during the meeting we will supposedly be discussing investment properties that suit our borrowing capacity, with three members of Life Capital Group. In reading the above it seems this all fits the profile.
    • scott | 03 Aug 2015, 09:55 AM Agree 0
      Life capital group presented to us apprentices whilst I was in the army. Total scam, please avoid unless you happy to pay first four yrs as "fees" before you see any equity growth. A lot of us lost a lot of cash at a young age.
  • John Henry | 13 Jul 2012, 09:54 AM Agree 0
    Yes, has anyone ever deal with Julio De Lafitte ? JDL strategies ?
    I was offered similar property for $438.000 two years ago in COOMERA I don't know how and why but I feels that I got scammed after I paid $880 for the lifetime membership fee. Later on I found out that the commission they after is around $8500 everytime we secure a deal purchasing the overpriced property.
    So I'd like to know what's or story ?
    • | 05 Feb 2016, 10:08 AM Agree 0
      Hi Jo
      I'm having a meeting with this guys of JDL next week. I'm a 28 years old hard worker guy. I don't want give my money to the wrong person. Before I start to do anything, what's your experience with JDL?
      Thanks

      Perry
  • Fergus | 16 Jul 2012, 04:59 PM Agree 0
    Anyone heard of Ausinvest/loan market in Brisbane, also does anybody know how to check out these companys to see if they are legitimate?? any help would be apreciated.
  • Lilly | 19 Jul 2012, 01:29 PM Agree 0
    Always sign a contract subject to finance. When the valuation is done, it will be obvious if you are getting a good deal or not, bearing in mind that valuations usually come at below contract price. And if the val comes higher than the selling price, it is a good deal.
    Advise from investors club is given in general. At the end of the day, we all buy properties and no matter where/who we bought a property from, as long as it is in a good area, the purchaser or company have done a thorough research/due-dilligence, valuation is at contract price, then it is not logical to say and generalise that all marketing companies out there are scams.
    It is important to remember that we all have choices, and we cannot blame others for making wrong decisions.
    Safe and happy investing!
    • Rosie | 02 Dec 2016, 02:53 PM Agree 0
      Exactly! In a buyer's market you can usually get away with a few special conditions that give you plenty of time to do some close-up investigations and a way out if you need one.
  • Barb Withers | 14 Oct 2012, 07:02 PM Agree 0
    I have also just been contacted by Life Capital Group for a " free" travelling appointment to discuss how I can use and reduce my Income Tax to invest now for retirement.

    Any body available to explain what happened at the "meeting" and what you think their "angle " is? What are they going to get out of it? Is it really a scam to purchase an investment property??/

    Thanks. Barb
  • Alan W | 24 Oct 2012, 10:03 AM Agree 0
    I notice a lot of posts asking about certain companies. This happens a lot on the internet property forums. The short answer is if they are doing the things described in the article above be very careful. There are literally hundreds of these marketing companies and clubs, all with very similar business models. Just ask yourself, how are they being paid?
  • Alan W | 24 Oct 2012, 11:17 AM Agree 0
    A quick note in relation to Lily's comment above. Clearly you are a Support Member or Branch Manager of The Investors Club. I'm sorry but it is nonsense for you to suggest that a bank valuation is a good indication of the properties market value. This sounds very much like a Kevin Young 'spin' statement which you are simply parroting. The truth is that in 90% of cases, the bank will value the property at the agreed purchase price on the contract. So a bank valuation means very little in terms of it's current market value. You have to get an independent valuation to do that. Something that I know TIC won't encourage.

    The story about the Western Australian couple in the article sounds very much like the development that TIC were marketing on the Gold Coast known as Kirribilli Heights. The figures sound about right anyway. The Kirribilli story is just another one that I know Kevin Young has been less than truthful about. I know that certain TIC staff were involved with the developer in the very deceitful practice of inflating the sales figures on these properties. Kevin Young went to great lengths to cover this story up, and has his own version of events which can only be described as deceptive and misleading.

    Anyway a very well written article YIPM. This is the sort of information that consumers need to understand when dealing with marketing companies.
  • Custodian Wealth Builders Feedback | 07 Dec 2012, 04:16 PM Agree 0
    I bought my fourth investment property with these guys early this year and have built a sizeable $ portfolio. Good bunch of people that walk the talk.
  • Cautious | 07 Dec 2012, 06:16 PM Agree 0
    My wife and I attended a meeting with Life Capital recently and found it to be quite an eye opener.
    We are both cautious by nature and making a decision on the day to invest in a property was something we would always be reluctant to do.
    What we did get out of our appointment, though, was that we really need a retirement plan and property can definitely be part of that plan.
    Would we buy an investment property through Life Capital? - Based on our experience, no we wouldn't, but that's just us, and besides we'd rather invest closer to home.
    I'm sure that there are lots of Life Capital clients who have purchased and done well.
    Would we recommend having an appointment with Life Capital? - Absolutely. You have nothing to lose and as we were told from the outset, its your choice what you do with the information..
    We are very grateful we attended the appointment as we gained invaluable insights into what we could be doing differently and we will definitely be looking at purchasing an investment property early next year.
    • RR | 28 Sep 2015, 02:34 PM Agree 0
      wow, planted post much?
  • That was expensive | 29 Jan 2013, 04:30 PM Agree 0
    Do not invest with Life Capital
    We invested with on advice from Life Capital and have lost a lot of money and are attempting to sell. The property was over priced and the fee was over $9000.
    We thought we were purchasing the services of industry experts. They know Melbourne and we don't.
    Everything they said from values to rental returns has been way off the mark! The fee seemed appropriate for the services of experts, but they are not
    Stay Away!
  • leap of faith | 31 Jan 2013, 04:57 PM Agree 0
    I recently took the Life Capital Journey and can honestly say that i have been quite impressed and comfortable throughout the process. At first i was hesistant and skeptical on the whole idea - but after sitting down and going through the process with their team, I felt alot more secure/comfortable about it and decided to take the plunge. They do make it very clear on how they are paid and how it all works which earned a bit of my trust. The property did come in $5000 under contract price - but i am not too concerned with this as i have a close friend whos a real estate agent and she tells me that banks & valuers are quite conservative at the moment in their valuations. In my opinion - if you are not already an avid investor and you are just starting out - this is definitely a great way and a big eye opener (regardless if you purchase or not). They take the stress out of the equation if you are new to the ball game.
  • That was Expensive | 01 Feb 2013, 05:07 PM Agree 0
    Your close friend is real estate agent? and you paid the fee for Life Capital?
    You sound like an employee of Life Capital....
    Do not invest with this group! I did and it cost us BIG TIME!!!!
    Please do your research and do it yourself.
    Ask the bank for a discounted rate, setup and offset account for your primary residence and set the investment at a fixed rate for peace of mind.
    keep funds in your offset account and live off a credit card each month, pay off the card at the end of the month
    buy new to get a better depreciation. If buying an older property you can still get a depreciation schedule done for about $600
    Use an agent to manage your investment property.
    There u go, u just saved thousands!!
  • Margaret | 05 Feb 2013, 03:51 PM Agree 0
    Yes, bought 9 properties through them and couldn't be happier as they opened our door to investing. For passive investors it may suit while for active investors probably not. The same way we like a different cup of tea or coffee, right? Just ask this question, if the company is dishonest, sooner or later it will be out of business. Well they are still around... great motivational and inspirational information provided at their seminars and nobody forces anyone to do anything....
  • Margaret | 05 Feb 2013, 03:52 PM Agree 0
    Yes, bought 9 properties through them and couldn't be happier as they opened our door to investing. For passive investors it may suit while for active investors probably not. The same way we like a different cup of tea or coffee, right? Just ask this question, if the company is dishonest, sooner or later it will be out of business. Well they are still around... great motivational and inspirational information provided at their seminars and nobody forces anyone to do anything....
    By the way I was referring to CWB (Custodian Wealth Builders).
  • Alan | 09 Feb 2013, 04:36 PM Agree 0
    Anybody had dealings with Infinite Wealth in WA? They seem to fit the bill of the above mentioned.
  • kitty | 14 Feb 2013, 09:34 AM Agree 0
    Seminars on buying property - run for your life. Want to buy an investment property, start going to open houses every weekend in your own city do the due diligence yourself. Those who rely on these spruikers will get ripped off big time, and you only have yourself to blame for not researching.
  • Angela | 16 Feb 2013, 05:27 PM Agree 0
    Anyone heard of Australian Property Investment Group?
    • Tania | 30 Mar 2016, 06:57 AM Agree 0
      I just got a missed call from them at 7pm while eating dinner last night. Have no idea how they even got my number
  • Alan W | 26 Feb 2013, 01:22 PM Agree 2
    So many of you are asking "have you heard about xxx company" Here's some more tips:
    Just go to the company website and look for the following things:

    1) Do they offer a 'one stop shop service' i.e. they refer you to the broker, the lawyer the accountant etc.
    2) Does the company and it's staff they get paid by commission on each property that they sell?
    3) Is it difficult to find out from the website who the real directors of the company are?
    4) Do they make a lot of feel good statements about themselves e.g spruik about all the philanthropy they are involved with.
    5) Do they try to associate themselves with gurus, e.g people like Richard Branson, Donald Trump or other names that they think sound impressive?
    6) Do they have a special group of elite investors who for a fee get access to special deals? (e.g a property millionaires club or similar?)
    7) Do they have a part of their business that is obviously targeting young investors?
    8) Is their website full of testimonials taken from people in the very early stages of their association with the company, i.e. before they have had a chance to judge the performance of the statements that have been made to them. Are the people who give the testimonials not contactable?
    9) Do they claim to have staff who research the best areas for investment properties. (this is almost certain to be B/S. They sell whatever developers stock they can get their hands on).
    10) Is their marketing message always "Now is the best time to buy"? Despite what many of these companies say, timing is very important. Understand the economic clock and what this represents in terms of buying opportunities.

    This list is by no means exhaustive but the idea is that the more of these boxes you can tick when visiting their website, the more I would stay well away. Get smart and educate yourselves on how to find a good investment property. If you reply on the information fed to you by sales people, you will almost certainly get ripped off.

    If you want to stay safe, look for a company that offers real estate investment education seminars or programs but does not go on to sell or recommend property on behalf of developers. These companies are unfortunately few and far between, but do exist and won't have the obvious conflicts of interest that the property marketing companies do.
  • Tim | 05 Mar 2013, 04:38 PM Agree 0
    I was on the Boston One seminar yesterday. Never heard about them before. They told how cool to invest in property due to a great leverage and provided a motivational example: 400K property with rent $395 per week (sic!) would grow in price on 7% per year. Could you imagine how much money you get in 10 years! I find this kind of examples is an insult for an intelligence of any investor and a clear sign of a scam.
  • Skeptic | 17 Mar 2013, 03:45 PM Agree 0
    Has anyone had dealings with Property Wealth Forum in Brisbane (the 1% club)? I have been to one of their seminars. It all sounds impressive and appears to make sense. However, many people are strongly advising me to ignore their tactics. I would be interested to hear from people who have had previous dealings with this company regardless if you have or haven’t gone with this company and for what reasons (for or against).

    From the Property Wealth Forum website, I can just about tick all the questions Alan W (26/2/13) has listed. Thanks for the tip Alan W.
    • David | 01 Jun 2016, 08:32 PM Agree 0
      Yes I have. They have had some staff from Custian Wealth Bulders join them.]

      They are all the same. They sell shit property in areas of no natural demand and make fees of $35000 to $30,000.

      Rule whatever for a serious property investor, get an independant valuation. May cost you $300 but could save you thousands.
  • Anthony | 18 Mar 2013, 03:48 PM Agree 0
    Thank you for a very well written post...informative and unbiased.
    Do you have any suggestions on a few property investment training companies, as you suggest, that are for real, and have no conflicting interests? I'm very keen to find one I can trust and learn something from.
    Again thank you !
  • Anthony | 18 Mar 2013, 03:51 PM Agree 0
    oops my last post was in relation to #AllanW post above...thanks :)
  • russel | 21 Mar 2013, 12:37 PM Agree 0
    I think the method of direct selling has been around for years and used by some of australias largest developers such as central equity and salta. I bought an investment property through this method and the truth is i would have never made an investment without the encouragement of a sales seminar. I have actually accumulated equity in my first purchase about 6 years ago and am looking to buy a second. Is there anything i should be looking for
  • Property investor | 21 Mar 2013, 01:09 PM Agree 0
    Hi my name is dan snow
    I invested in a property company in Melbourne around 6 years ago and found the information provided to me on the day was very useful! I guess in every company out there it has its good ones and bad ones ! My property has made me around 100 thousand dollars and I will be going back to buy another one soon. People are wrong to assume it may not work for them before going and finding out what it's all about! I recommend it to anyone to go and have a look.
  • Karl | 21 Mar 2013, 06:04 PM Agree 0
    Stay away from JDL strategies. One of the worst of the worst. The Australian Securities & Investments Commission (ASIC) even warned me not to deal with them. My finance broker and accountant gave me the asic details and told me to check with them before continuing. Stay away from any company or business trying to flog you the property as part of a wealth strategy. Recipe for disaster. JDL Strategies are one of the top 10 worst wealth creation property investment companies in Australia. Stay away.
  • Uzzie | 21 Mar 2013, 08:33 PM Agree 0
    THanks for a very informative article. Keep the name and shame coming guys!
  • Disgruntled one | 27 Oct 2013, 09:28 PM Agree 0
    Agree with Karl about JDL, they speak well but make their money on commissions from selling property that is added to the price so investors end up paying too much.
    • Disclosure is key | 28 Jan 2016, 01:15 PM Agree 0
      Hi there - let me be totally honest up front, i DO work for JDL, have worked in varioius areas for them for 6 years now - and although i'm not personally a big property person (I'm a Financial Planner) i just wanted it out there that they actually DON'T add the commission they make on top of the property house cost. They disclose the commission they make to the client so there's no secret or hiding of money there.
  • Alan W | 21 Sep 2014, 07:05 AM Agree 0
    For the information of readers, a classic example of a property marketing company disguised as a club and taking advantage of inexperienced buyers can be found here. http://moneysaverhq.heraldsun.com.au/update/business/queenslands-office-of-fair-trading-and-asic-probing-kevin-youngs-property-club/story-fni0csm4-1227062332610 . Don't be fooled by these spruikers claims that they are wealth educators, consumer advocates and philanthropists. Too often the warnings they give about others in the industry, are a smokescreen to hide the fact that they re involved in the same deceitful practices themselves. As the above article suggests, Kevin Young is really starting to to be exposed now as the Emperor with no clothes! in my opinion this has been long overdue.
  • Alan W | 20 Nov 2014, 01:32 PM Agree 0
    Anyone interested in more information on Kevin Young (previously known as Kevin Sampy) and the Property Club (previously known as The Investors Club) just check out this very well researched article from the Courier Mail back in 2002. Something that I'm sure Kevin Young would rather remain buried forever.

    If for some reason this link gets removed as well, just google search the title of it which is "Property Club Faces Probe by Watchdog"

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/69824580/MEDIA - 2002 - Thomas and Marx.pdf

    It seems little has changed since 2002 and the watchdog has done little to protect consumers from the misleading and deceptive conduct of this property marketing company disguised as a club.
  • Peter | 26 Nov 2014, 12:44 PM Agree 0
    Does anybody know much about Rocket Property group? They give free services and seem nice, except they look like real estate agents just selling the houses and apartments they have access to rather than actually providing a different service for a fee, which is what I would prefer. What they sell is overpriced for the areas they have them in and I don't think it's worth it. Anyone had any success with them? I know they advertise in the magazine too.
    • John, NSW | 26 Nov 2014, 03:43 PM Agree 0
      Sorry, put this below and realised I didn't actually reply to you!! See below.
      Hi, I'm an investor that has worked with Ian and Lindy of Rocket Property Group. I bought an off the plan unit in Brisbane (near the CBD) which was actually really well priced for the market (low $300K for a brand new 1bed, 1bath). I'm a young guy and I really didn't know much, so they educated me on everything I needed to know before I actually looked at a property. They got me some nice incentives and a good solicitor as well. I'm actually planning on sitting with Ian and Lindy soon to discuss my progress so far and look at improving the portfolio with the next purchase. They're very kind, friendly and approachable, and they handled a lot of stuff behind the scenes for me so I could focus on work (which is super crazy right now). I'm pretty happy with them, and I'm hoping that my property values up at Settlement, which having looked at Brisbane recently seems like a strong possibility.
    • Dan | 01 Dec 2014, 09:11 PM Agree 0
      Hi Peter.

      We met Ian and Lindy after extensive "googling" and after speaking with 3 property investment companies, it was clear that Ian, Lindy and the team at Rocket had a lot more to offer than just extensive personal experience. They are a wonderful that will coach, guide and advise you through your investment opportunities, taking time to get to understand you and your circumstances and proposing suitable solutions, as they have done so with us. Since January 2014, we have purchased 7 properties throughout Queensland and we have already completed one and we are already enjoying the positive cash flow and tax benefits, all from Melbourne. Don't hesitate in setting up a 1-2-1 with them. Follow successful people to become successful.
  • John, NSW | 26 Nov 2014, 03:42 PM Agree 0
    Hi, I'm an investor that has worked with Ian and Lindy of Rocket Property Group. I bought an off the plan unit in Brisbane (near the CBD) which was actually really well priced for the market (low $300K for a brand new 1bed, 1bath). I'm a young guy and I really didn't know much, so they educated me on everything I needed to know before I actually looked at a property. They got me some nice incentives and a good solicitor as well. I'm actually planning on sitting with Ian and Lindy soon to discuss my progress so far and look at improving the portfolio with the next purchase. They're very kind, friendly and approachable, and they handled a lot of stuff behind the scenes for me so I could focus on work (which is super crazy right now). I'm pretty happy with them, and I'm hoping that my property values up at Settlement, which having looked at Brisbane recently seems like a strong possibility.
  • Andrew | 26 Nov 2014, 08:19 PM Agree 0
    I’m not as far in as John – my first purchase settles on Friday! After speaking with Lindy at the Home Show I attended an intimate session with only a dozen interested people where Lindy, Ian and others went through the various types of property investment, and what worked for them. There was never a hard sell - just great information and tips to help anyone become a property investor. I was never pushed into signing anything or to pay any fees. They are happy to recommend solicitors, brokers, estate agents etc they've used previously around the county, but you don’t have to use them. I was sceptical and did my research on the developers – the 3 developers I’m using (for 3 properties being built over the next 12 months) have a track record that can be easily located, and I couldn't find any bad press on them. In fact I found some articles in local papers that had covered them previously as doing great work in the area! I think my prices are fair market prices, and are very close to what the banks have valued them at. Plus, Lindy has won ‘property investment advisor of the year’ several times in this magazine. If they weren't good, they wouldn't be winning these awards, voted by you!
    I hope this helps
  • Matt | 27 Nov 2014, 08:55 PM Agree 0
    I have purchased a property through RPG and i couldn't be happier!!! Both Lindy and Ian are both very knowledgeable when it comes to investing in property and understand how to build a sizable portfolio, as they both have decent property portfolios themselves. when i have enough capital i will definitely be going back to them and have them guide me into property number 2
    Cheers Matt
  • Joe Slattery | 04 Dec 2014, 04:26 PM Agree 1
    JDL Strategies = Scam!

    Beware!
    Dont pay $880 for a Strategy report..... I'll tell you for free what it involves.... buy more assets, then you can buy more with the equity..... retire rich..... thats how basic it is, and they try to hide it by using fear of retirment, and fear of missing out, and trade marke names like "chain reaction"...... northing but a hoax.....

    Do yourself a favour and stay away.
    • steve | 10 Sep 2015, 05:31 PM Agree 1
      Exactly the same as Infinite Wealth
  • Tayla | 15 Oct 2015, 06:28 PM Agree 0
    There will always be scams and people will get caught but you can minimise your risk. Always best to research twice and buy once!
  • Paul | 19 Oct 2015, 08:31 PM Agree 0
    Hi, i am new to the investment property market and looking at different options in how to get in to the market. I recently had a meeting with a company, has anyone ever heard of Wealth and Equity Investing or WE Investing? Are they a scam or are they a legit company worth working with?
  • Against the herd | 14 Nov 2015, 04:02 AM Agree 1
    I have worked for 2 large investment companies and suggest that some of what they train and the principles are actually solid. If you read to the end of this post I will give you an idea what goes wrong.
    The good:
    1) You are screwed if you do nothing!
    2) property has a good track record for doubling at least every 10 years.
    3) Provided population growth and inflation continues (no one can promise) you property will continue to grow and statistically double every 10 years.

    HOWEVER, property cycles are complex and capital growth is not a linear phenomenon. There are 3 stages I like to refer to:
    1) The is a boom period, normally between 2 to 4 years max. Undersupply, market goes crazy, marketers dream, the herd (entry investors) chase this heated cycle hoping to make good gains from building assuming the market will continue to rise. Developers and builder crank up the machine trying to capitalise on the boom. The frenzy and greed ALWAYS causes an oversupply at some point. Vacancy rates go up as too many properties hit the market with insufficient people, rents come down as people argue over who can rent for the cheapest.
    2) A correction period (Bust)1 to 2 years. Plummeting rents and lower return dishearten investors. People struggle to cover the gap between rent and costs. Media cries crash. Disheartened investors sell. The race to sell combined by declining market confidence causes prices to plummet. It is possible to see prices fall below intrinsic value (replacement cost). In metro cities the bust can be 10 to 15% in affordable properties and much more on luxury high end.
    3) The recovery period. The bottom is reached. Prices stabilise but at prices below the heated market. Kinda like a bear market, people batten down the hatches. Population continues to grow, building approvals stay very low, excess stock slowly gets soaked up. These recovery periods can last 3 to 4 years. BUT these are extremely good buyer markets as you rarely fall from the bottom.

    At the end of the recovery phase you will see vacancy rates at super low levels, rents start to hike, confidence returns, the market suddenly realises there is an undersupply and the next boom starts.

    If you are patient and can hold your property and dont sell at the first sign of trouble, it will always come back (if population and inflation/economic growth continue). Show me someone who lost money in 10 years and you will see they brought in a declining population or economy or both. E.g. mining town that closed.

    However, you can understand people getting very upset if that by at the top and 6 years later its worth the same as they paid. They sell just as it comes back and someone else makes the money.

    THE PROBLEM
    Marketers generally chase heated markets and these heated market eventually oversupply and crash. If you are at the very beginning of this market, you can make good money in the short term. Take a look at Sydney for the last 2 years! However, most buy at the peak when hype is greatest. Price of land is overpriced, rents are high, builders are saturated and build times and prices are high. And then by the time you get your keys, the oversupply is kicking in. Your valuations and rent are on the way down. While the marketer probably did inflate the price (he gets a discount but then adds twice the discount) it is only part of your problems. Your property could have actually valued up when you brought. If you brought at the beginning of the boom you love your marketer because the rising market made you money by the time the key went in the door.

    My advice, wait till the bust is over and people are desperate. By your land at instrinsic value, drive a bargain with your desperate builder (watch he isnt going broke) as he can build cheaper and quicker because trades are desperate and available too. Rents are low but so are your loans. If you read the market right and you are patient, you can create positive geared property in the recession that will only ever grow, even if slow for a few years while you wait for the bull to arrive. While I am a developer and make money from building and subdivision in this period, you could buy 2 year old properties (as close to new as cycle allows for depreciation and maintenance) well below replacement value. Holding costs are still low because low rents are met with low cost of aquisition and loans. Timing is everything.

    Stop reading the mainstream crap! Read real mentors like Warren Buffet. You wont be popular at parties when you try to explain this to people but probably like Warren Buffet, I could care less about the masses - I am here to make money 😆😨
    • Ray | 08 Dec 2016, 12:23 PM Agree 0
      I totally agree with you.

      I've done a lot of reading and researching into property investing.
      One book caught me in particular; "Grow Rich With The Property Cycle" - Kieran Trass.

      An amazing book that mentions things you've mentioned in your comment above. I'm in my mid 20's
      and I'd love to learn from people who have "been there and done that". People with experience like
      yourself. Is there a way I can contact you via email? I'd really like to learn more from you.

      Regards,
      Ray
  • Kate | 01 Apr 2016, 08:50 AM Agree 0
    Property Club update.

    I have just been informed that Kevin Young has employed a barrister and is now sending out threatening legal letters to many of his ex members and critics who have dared to speak to the media about their negative experiences. Understand that this is the sign of a true property spruiker who is desperate to bury all the negative stories that have appeared all over the internet.

    For those of you who know a little bit about defamation law, you will know that it is easily manipulated by the wealthy to squeeze their opponents into a corner where they are forced to settle out of court. It is never their intervention to allow the matter to get into court as they know they seriously risk losing. Instead they deep pocket their opponents in the legal process for 2 -3 years knowing that each delay incurs more legal costs for their opponent. Eventually their opponents will get frustrated enough with the expense and delays and agree to settle out of court which is where they want them.

    Any settlement usually involves a payment in exchange for the opponent agreeing to sign confidentiality deeds preventing them from speaking out publicly about their negative experiences. This is a practice that Kevin Young from The Property Club has been involved in for years.

    If you get involved with a company like this and find out later that you were misled, expect the same sort of treatment from many of these property spruikers, especially those who have access to plenty of cash to fund their lawyers. Unfortunately there are plenty of lawyers willing to climb on the gravy train and allow these unethical practices to go on.

  • Wayne | 01 Apr 2016, 06:53 PM Agree 0
    Has anyone heard of Investors Choice Group? They are Gold Coast based and contacted us via my wife's mobile a couple of weeks ago, telling us how we could minimize our tax through property investment. We have had 2 meeting now at our house, and it all sounds too easy, we are suppose to meet the finance guru next week and get shown some properties, all are suppose to be brand new. Please let me know if these guys are on the level?
  • MC | 13 Apr 2016, 10:05 PM Agree 0
    I just had a guy from Life Capital visit us at home.
    All seemed good and he almost sounded like he knew some things about property, tax and super. He looked way too young though.
    I don't know much....but it's usually pretty obvious what is going on when you see the facial expressions, tone of voice and general body language change when you tell them in no uncertain manner that you will not be signing or paying for anything on the spot. It's the same look and body language a used car salesman has after you get back from a test drive has and he realises it is a 'no sale'.
    Excellent words from 'Against The Herd'. Thanks.
  • AnnaDanishek | 18 Apr 2016, 11:30 PM Agree 0
    The title is so intriguing... You should check all risks, so your future will be bright
  • AnnaDanishek | 04 May 2016, 07:18 PM Agree 0
    I notice a lot of posts asking about certain companies. This happens a lot on the internet property forums. The short answer is if they are doing the things described in the article above be very careful. There are literally hundreds of these marketing companies and clubs, all with very similar business models. Just ask yourself, how are they being paid
  • A Property Guy | 24 May 2016, 09:24 PM Agree 0
    I've been in the industry for a while. This is how the game goes.

    1) Telemarketing calls you offering you something along the lines of "government incentives" or a "free financial health checkup". They will ask you about your income, home details and attached mortgage, dependents, other investment properties, super - maybe some other minor questions.

    2) They send someone out to your home who shows you a way to pay off your home in half the time, save $10K in tax, plan for your retirement and or own multiple properties in a relatively short timeframe.

    3) From there you either go into the company's office and speak to the finance person and the property person or you go to a "wealth builder" expo - eventually for the same result.

    Basically, someone comes out to show you the concept of how new property can work for you. You then see the finance person to see if you can get the appropriate loan. You see a property guy who has sourced a house and land property for you. From there you sign property contracts and the loan process is started. The usual steps in buying a home ensue.

    I've seen a bunch of posts saying that this is a SCAM. BEWARE OF ALL COMPANIES THAT DO (X). There is some truth to that, but not much. Truth is, this process does work. IF and ONLY IF you get the right property. If you get a good tenant paying good rent in a good area you can literally save hundreds of thousands of dollars in interest and tax. If not, you can get into some strife. The dodgy ones mentioned are almost all funded by development companies (of at least that's where they make a majority of their money). Some of them sell good property in good areas etc. Most of them don't have the best properties available.

    At the end of the day it's often better to jump in and give investing a go than to read post after post about how all of these companies are shonky. Who else is going to show you how? Easier said than done to "do your research".

  • Pj | 21 Jul 2016, 09:32 PM Agree 0
    Interesting material
  • Bill2K | 26 Jul 2016, 11:21 AM Agree 0
    Anyone heard of Advanced Property Strategy- Nhan Nguyen.
    There have been a few seminars lately.
    If you could share you experiences that would be great.
  • DANK | 28 Sep 2016, 04:06 PM Agree 0
    The Absolute best thing to do is when you want to purchase a property, Investment or owner occupier is look around.

    Do not under any circumstances take calls or make appointments with these so called wealth creators from these company's.
    there is alot of realestate agents out there you can go see and they will show exactly whats available.

    To purchase property it is absolute best to go direct through your bank for the loan or your banks preferred broker.

    All this information about how to minimize your tax and get great capital gains through property can be very easily done through your accountant or bank manager. do not leave deposit's anywhere to attend an in office appointment with these so called wealth creators.

    There is thousands of developments going on in every major capital city in Australia. you can go see the developer or realestate agent your self, But please stay away from these night callers when it comes to property. (YOU WILL GET BURNT!)
  • Jennifer | 16 Nov 2016, 01:43 PM Agree 0
    Hi, I cannot say that I have used any property marketer systems since I research and write books on money. As I worked for one marketer I understand that the mentoring fees are actually paying for the company to keep running and any commission is profits. However it can all be legit and even create a system for a novice investor to follow. If you would like to learn from Nhan Nguyen I can say that I know him to be a person who likes to give value, although I have no experiences as a client. At least he has done the hard yards and gained wealth from using his own system, and you cannot say that for the sales guys who go out for a consultation.

    When learning about property or any type of investing, learn for yourself and do not be led by sales agents or trusted financial prof. who get kickbacks. Think about your goals and risk level you're happy with. Think about the possible roadblocks of a certain strategy before you do it. See ebook 'how to control your financial destiny' for more info on self-education.
Post a reply